Ryan: I’m Dr. Ryan Debell. Welcome back to the Health Fit Business podcast. This is episode number 32 and what you’ll notice at the end of this episode is we actually recorded this before last week’s episode on our favorite online marketing tools. So, at the end of it, if you haven’t listened to that episode before and you are wondering what our online marketing tools are that we enjoy go tune in to episode number 31 because we just posted this backwards. But in this episode what Anthony and I covered are how to get customer feedbacks in order to make good decisions for your business. We also touched briefly on Ketosis and then we talked for quite a while on a cash-based clinic versus insurance-based. Some ideas on marketing and how to position yourself and how to decide if that’s really a way that you would like to go.  So, without further ado let’s tune in to episode number 32.

Ryan and Anthony: Welcome everybody!

Ryan: to the Health…

Anthony: To another episode of the Health Fit…

Ryan & Anthony: Business…

Anthony: Podcast.

Ryan: Podcast!

Anthony: Live edition.

Ryan:  What is this is episode number, Dr. Anthony Gustin?

Anthony: 29, 28? I don’t know! Something.

Ryan: This is episode 20 something. Maybe 30 something. What are we doing? This is a little different because… Pressure!

Anthony: Yeah. We are here coming live from pureWOD HQ.

Ryan: We are getting back because both of us where in both of these. You need this…So we are doing a…

Anthony:  Just a new lap, what we’re doing.

Ryan:  Sit on my lap.

Anthony: Anyway.  We are coming to you from pureWOD HQ a.k.a my kitchen where I ran most of this business.  Anyway, we have Instagram Live going. Not Facebook live because we had a little tech glitch. However, we have new questions. We are taking questions online. You need to read these questions.

Ryan: Oh sorry! You guys go to exercises prefered methods to address SI joint injury.

Anthony: Go to do exercises? We are taking notes on a bunch of questions that had been asked about health fitness or business. One question quick that was asked was “What is the best way to get feedback from your clients?” So, this can be I guess an online training thing in person. My go to way is to create a form system on google forms or type forms and then email your list.  And so, this can get very complicated or can be very simple. In the beginning of days like that what I did a lot of just mass email and I would go through every single response. When that became into a thousand of customers and thousands of emails, it was tough. It was tough to response so what I end up doing is going through Googledocs and now I use type form which is a very easy free online system to get a lot of data. And then from that, I’ve actually developed from maybe I quarterly or bi-monthly. So here, more questions. Are you writing them down?

Ryan: No. No. No. I’m just angling it.

Anthony: So, what we need… What we do here is we grab all these data from these people and formulate what the next projects will be. Different marketing strategies. So, for instance, if 85% of people tell me they want a vanilla protein so that’s what happened last time I asked people what they wanted for a new a product. I made it. And so, that’s the best way for me to get feedback and how about you? Just email list. Ask three to five questions. Don’t make it too cumbersome and then go through the data and see what relevant to you.

Ryan: I think that’s one way to do it. I think it depends on what type of feedback. Those questions are like related to backpain.

Anthony: That’s fine.

Ryan:  We can certainly do that since we’re both trained in that type of stuff. I think that emailing out your list and you have some sort of survey available, either as like Google form or as… Oh, my gosh! What was that?

Anthony: A photo.

Ryan: A Google form or you can do something like a survey software or Survey Gizmo, Survey Monkey. Something like that can be used…

Anthony: Yeah. Like what I said. It could be super easy or super complicated.

Ryan: And I think that you should make it as easy as possible so that you actually do it versus making it really complicated and analytical and like lots of stats. If that makes so super cumbersome to actually do that thing. So, I think emailing out your list…

Anthony: “Why does Perfect Keto used Amazon payments?” So, that is just because we’ve been out of stock because we’ve been selling a lot on Amazon. So, if you want to use Amazon payments you could probably just go to Amazon. We are back on stock on there. Honestly, we launched the company and stuffs had been crazy so I’ve enabled add a lot of features to website. But I’ll put that on there. Something that you want to use. So…

Ryan: Yeah. People like to… Basically, you can buy product through like a good commerce store using the gateway of..

Anthony: There are different platforms to set up for different online e-commerce businesses and that one, it’s kind of tricky to set things up. It isn’t easy so it takes a lot of developing time. So, that will be added. Sorry! New. New company. Things are growing quick. But a good example of that, how to market or how to get used customer feedback for marketing or for new product design. I also asked what new products are coming. Last time I sent that one, everybody asked for anti-inflammatory so  I have that in line. That’s all I want to say about that. We have a health question from Erin. This ties to another one so I’ll just answer them back to back. Pros and cons or differences between strict Ketogenic diets and high fat low carb.

Ryan: We’ll answer your question next on the cash-based versus insurance.

Anthony: Oh! We’ll get there for sure. This will be very quick and then, the combination of Keto and hormone imbalance for women. So, low carb-high fat what happens a lot of times is we don’t actually go on a strict ketogenic diet and when you do, what you do we use this meter and can see how much ketones you are actually using. So, if you are not yet, if you’re not testing your actual levels, you maybe kind of… What ketosis is is a state of using fat break down for energy. Right? So, ketones. So, what your body usually does is it uses glucose for energy. Right? What happens is if you just high fat low carb you can be eating so enough carbs or even enough protein, where your body kind of going in between these states of both asking for sugar and asking for fat for energy. And that what actually leads to a lot of hormonal problems when people says they are on ketosis especially women. It is not that ketosis is leading them to hormonal problem but is that their body is switching back and forth between asking for sugar and asking for fat and that is a very traumatic thing for hormones especially in women. And so, instead of just having high fat and tracking it, and making sure that you are actually in the state of ketosis. And so, that could lead to a lot of inflammation problems down the road and hormonal imbalances and those are the main differences kind of infamous surface level. I can read it. I’ll write a podcast. I’ll write… What is it called?

Ryan: Post.

Anthony: Blog post, right?

Ryan: A blog post.

Anthony: About that. So…

Ryan: I’ll write a podcast.

Anthony: I will do that. Ill link it into the show notes. And so, if you guys are wondering more about that, for people on here as well as people listening to the show. Kind of deviation from our normal questions but I think it is kind of cool… What is written on there?

Ryan: Yeah. Someone is asking what glucometer.

Anthony: It’s not a glucometer, it is a ketone reader. It is a Precision Xtra. And so, they have these little strips.

Ryan: Do we have any in this little pouch?

Anthony: People who are listening. It is called the Precision Xtra. So that’s probably what you’ll get. I just showed people online. But yeah. It is a Precision Xtra meter and there’s these little strips in there. It is just like a glucose meter but it reads ketones level.

Ryan: Yeah. Puncture your finger. Milk some blood out.

Anthony: Pop it in and then squirt it out and then you put in on there.

Ryan: So, let’s answer the a…

Anthony: Let’s get more to the business questions I guess.

Ryan:  Somebody asked a question like “What are the challenges of marketing an insurance-based clinic versus cash-based clinic?” I think that was FitlyNation that was asking this question. This is actually a very relevant question because I just stopped taking essentially all insurance. I take one insurance right now and the main reason for that is because they are contractor with the Boeing.

Anthony: And you like jets? You want to get like Boeing sponsorships?

Ryan: No. They ask if Boeing sponsor the podcast. No. Because it is a self-pay. Meaning they don’t actually use regencies like the policy-type thing. They actually, the company pays the claims. So, they don’t create barriers and hassle for me. That is the only reason I take it right now.  

Anthony: I guess before we say what challenges marketing. Two different ways. The question is “Why do you want to do one of these?”and generally it goes with how complicated insurance is getting. That it is much easier insuring business for you to take cash so that way you can reinvest the profit into doing. If you want it for yourself it is fine. Otherwise, you can use that for hiring more people or more staff or scaling up your practice. Usually, more profit means more impact you can have so assuming that you are leaning towards cash whoever asked the question.

Ryan:  It’s FitlyNation. It scrolled up.

Anthony: And so, it is going to really depend on demographics as well. Me, being in San Francisco, it was super easy for us to go after cash patients. If you are in a suburb in whatever, Minnesota, where I grew up, there’s you’re going to have a really really hard time marketing to these people. So, I guess first is what are your available demographics? If you have that information, send it over. Otherwise, think about that before you even can go cash. Different type of marketing style  that I did use here in San Francisco is, I wanted cash patients sp I wanted much easier transaction and so I went to CrossFit gyms to work on people there who show clear willingness to pay for their health. And so, some of these paying especially in San Francisco, $300 for CrossFit gym membership, they are not going to have any problem paying $80-$90 for a chiro session when they want to get back to doing CrossFit. So, go where you think the people that are willing to pay cash. That would be my main suggestion for that.

Ryan: So, there is a certain convenience factor that you need to provide. Substituting the “convenience” factor way from being able to use their insurance.

Anthony: Instead of going to a health fair at a large company. That could be a good lead generation if you are looking for insurance-paying patients.  But if you are trying to switch more to cash-paying, people are going to go there because they want to know how they can use their insurance because their company gives them really great insurance, of course! It makes sense.

Ryan:  As I’ve been making a transition toward that is, if you think about what are the pain points of somebody…How are my volume level? Is that what you are looking at?

Anthony: No, no. No. We’re good.

Ryan: What are the pain points from the patient’s perspective of using their insurance? One of those is they don’t know how much it’s actually going to cost. So, for example someone thinks their insurance is going to cover a service, and then they either have a deductible, or certain things are not eligible or they have a large co-insurance and then they end up getting a huge bill and they get frustrated.  They get annoyed by that. So, I think one way that you could work on that is and this isn’t so much marketing as it is like interacting with a potential client, is explaining to them that if you don’t take insurance then you could tell them right now how much it’s going to cost and they know upfront and there is no like, “Oh! Am I going to get billed in the mail?” You can also have a very good transparency with them. Transparency to me, one of the biggest reason I don’t like taking insurance is I can’t be transparent with cost. Some on says “How much does this cost?” “What? I don’t really know.”

Anthony: It makes you seem like the bad guy.

Ryan: It makes me seem like the bad guy. So, what I stress to people is not “Oh! You know working with insurance suck!” which is why I’m not going to take it. I explain to them that I want to be able to tell them exactly what it’s going to cost so I set their expectations. This is what it’s going to be and you’re not ever going to get a bill in the mail from me. I can do what’s required to make you better and not do what is required to get paid by an insurance company. So, if I put it in their best interest, this almost… Doctor! This is almost refer back to the episode of WII FM.

Anthony: What’s that? A radio station?

Ryan:  What in it for me?! Right?! If you explained to somebody that the reason you don’t take insurance is because it is in their best interest. It is in many ways.

Anthony: Yeah.

Ryan: Explain it that way.

Anthony: Yeah. So, before you wrap this up, my main suggestion would be if you are looking for cash versus insurance, look to where those people would be and go there. That’s where it is to market. But, you make a good point. You can also market to everybody and then just, if you don’t want to take  insurance, you can convert people that pay insurance to accepting cash by just educating them better about.  So, that’s what I did for a lot of people. “But I have this insurance.” “Yeah! That’s fine. We can send you a super bill. What we would normally bill and you can just fax it along or call the number at the back to your card and handle that way.” That way you don’t have to differentiate and you can get people who would be insurance patients usually and tell them why you do cash payments and make it as easy for them as possible and you can market everywhere. You don’t want to be constrained into a CrossFit gym. You could go anywhere you want.

Ryan: I think what you do is you have a very broad marketing approach and then you have a…

Anthony: What’s up? We are recording a podcast.

Ryan: Oh!! Lifters’ Clinic! A good friend of mine, Mario.

Anthony: What’s up Mario?!

Ryan:  One of the smartest people I know.

Anthony: Even smarter than you?

Ryan: Mario is smarter than me. And I’m actually going to see him in Nashville in a couple of weeks when I go there. So, okay. Yeah. So, create a lot of leads by broadly marketing.  But then, when people inquire you have to have a good ability to convert them and you can use conversion strategies of explaining why what’s in it for them to see you which is not going through insurance.  You can hit on those pain points that people experience when they do use insurance. The frustrations and then talk about how not using insurance takes away from their frustrations or removes those frustrations. I think you’ll have good success with that.

Anthony: Any quick question before we wrap up this episode? We are getting at the usually 15 minutes  or so we like keep these things. I’d say to make those two things actionable or three. If you’re looking for feedback from people, go make an email. Just mass email to people and either just ask for email back or put a form behind it so you can organize them. Pretty easy. But you have to have it formulated in what you’re trying to get for information out of them. It’s like “Hey! What do you guys like?”

Ryan: I think there’s a big reason to do a form because many times people don’t want to give feedback unless they are anonymous.

Anthony: Yeah and so, that is number one. Number two, between Keto and high fat-low carb, test what works for you. Anyway, you can test by using this Precision Xtra meter that I’m holding now and showing up. Forgot that we are talking to people who can’t see us right now. And then, number three, cash versus insurance marketing. Two questions I asked, “Can I convert insurance people to cash?” It’s easier or two if you are trying to look for them, straight up would be go to where they would be.

Ryan: Yup! Great!

Anthony: Alright. So, get after it and if you guys. I know it is a little sloppy. It’s our first run of this so if you are listening in and if you like this, we can do this and we can also plan for this maybe like a couple of things down the road. We can set a date and email you guys and then, I mean, do that again so you guys can submit your questions up. Otherwise, if you have questions…

Ryan: We just have a new question.

Anthony: Current favorite online marketing platform. Maybe, do you want to hit that now?

Ryan:  Let’s hit it now. Let’s hit is now while we are on.  ‘Cause I don’t think we are going to do another live episode.

Anthony: We’re doing a live one.

Ryan: Are we?

Anthony: Yeah.

Ryan: I guess we are going to do another live episode here in a minute.  Okay. So, here’s what we’re going to do. We are going to end this episode now and then we are going to come back for the next episode. We’ll talk about our favorite online marketing platforms and maybe we’ll talk online marketing systems and things to think about.

Anthony: Ahahaha.

Ryan:  So that’s going to be the theme for the next podcast which we are going to record in like three minutes because I got to get, what do you call that? LaCroix?

Anthony: Yeah. I’m going to get espresso but with raw cream.

Ryan: Oh! Okay, we are going to make an espresso with raw cream.  Unpasteurized, non-homogenized.

Anthony: Don’t go anywhere.

Ryan:  And then, we are going to record an episode on our favorite online marketing platform. We’ll talk about what we used behind the scenes that people don’t realized is being used and why you should use certain ones at certain phases and what we recommend. So, that’s what we got!

Anthony: @croneybaloney. If you want, to see that, I might switch to Facebook live so head over there. If I go out for few…

Ryan: Oh! Let’s do Facebook Live for this next.

Anthony: Yeah. We’ll switch to Facebook Live. So, if you guys go to Facebook Live, we’ll pop over there and then if you also, what to say? If you don’t tag along new five people that aren’t here right now. What we’ll do is… Thank you. What we’ll do is… This will be live on a podcast in like five weeks so…

Ryan:  Yeah. Tune in five weeks to review this. Sean switching. I hope all of you guys on the Movement Fix Instagram page, switch over to Facebook Live. In like one, four minutes because that’s how long it’s going to take us to make the espresso. And then we got to come back to talk about online marketing platforms. So, with that said… You got to push the end button at the top right.

Anthony: Ah! Make sense.

Ryan: And then you got to hit the end live video so you push that and then. Oh, my gosh! So, uncoordinated. Push that. Oh, my gosh! Why is it so hard for you? You have to push end live.

Anthony: Ok! I’m going to push the end button on the podcast so we’ll see you next time. Get after it!

Ryan: Thank you guys for tuning in to this episode of the Health Fit Business podcast. If you found it helpful, please share with someone that you think it would also help and leave us a five-star rating on iTunes. Make sure also to go to and sign up for the email notifications to which you can find right on the homepage so that you get all the updated podcasts and blog posts sent directly to you. Until then, we will see you next time.